Think twice before using your AR-15 for home defense. 🤔

[spencer60]

From seeing a bunch of these penetration tests, it's hard to tell exactly what a 223 round will or won't go through. It seems very dependent on bullet shape, weight and construction.

One thing that seems to be a constant is that a 'classic' 223/5.56 (~55gr or so) will generally penetrate drywall less than most handgun or shotgun rounds.

That actually makes sense too. Force = Mass times Velocity SQUARED. So if you start reducing the velocity you are reducing the force by a much larger amount than if you reduce mass by say, fragmentation.

Going through drywall may not break up a 55gr FMJ round, but it will definitely cut it's speed by a good chunk. And as they say, speed kills.

 

[aFarewellToKings]

However, a tricked-out murder machine made on the AK-47 platform wouldn't be subject to the same argument of "it's very common among the good guys, the professional instructors and coaches, and among cops, prison guards, and private security teams in the USA, therefore my client's choice to arm himself with such a gun ahead of time shows nothing about his bent of mind."

Given that logic, using a 30/30 lever gun would get you in more trouble too.
How many professional instructors and coaches, cops, prison guards, and private security teams use them?

 

[300_whisper]

Given that logic, using a 30/30 lever gun would get you in more trouble too.
How many professional instructors and coaches, cops, prison guards, and private security teams use them?

I’m jumping into this thread…I agree wholeheartedly. Plus the AK example is stupid. It’s literally the largest mass produced weapon system in the entire world. Mikhail has been referred to as the father of 100 million rifles.

This is why laws are stupid. They are vague and subject to interpretation.

Killing an intruder with a bat is ok, but shooting them with an AK is bad. Yup. Ok sound logic.

 

[ExplicitBoricua]

This is crazy!

 

[Bear44]

How many “gun owners” have suppressors even more so a 458 suppressed sbr

Do 450 Bushmasters count?

 

[hozjo]

A guy got convicted years ago for using a 10mm pistol in some self defense shooting where the prosecuter and police experts argued that his selection of 10mm and hollow point bullets was a premeditated decision to kill. It was later overturned on appeal partly because the state changed their defense law and bad jury instructions but yea this doesn't surprise me.


"The firearms investigator said that Fish’s gun — a 10mm — is more powerful than what police officers use and is not typically used for personal protection. And the ammunition Fish used to shoot Kuenzli three times, called “a hollow-point bullet,” is made to expand when it enters the body."


"Michael Lessler, prosecutor: Mr. Fish shot him three time in the chest with this high powered gun, hollow point bullets and caused his death. That’s murder."


Of course what actually gets said in court is half the battle, the other half is what the judge says you can't say.

The prosecution painted the victim as a friendly peaceful charitable man, this friendly peaceful man had attacked his ex's new boyfriend when she broke up with him, he sexually assaulted her, she got two protective orders against him, he had made previous suicide threats and had treatments for three mental disorders. He had previously acted aggressively in similar situations before the head of security of a local college, and a justice of the peace.

None of which the judge allowed the jury to hear about. Remember that when you think about being judged by a jury of your peers, it's on what the judge allows them to hear and this one made up their mind he was guilty and that the jury should find him guilty.

After three years in jail an appellate court ruled that not only had Arizona defense law changed but that "The evidence about Kuenzli’s background was “highly sanitized,” and that if permitted, numerous witnesses would have described Kuenzli as “irrationally aggressive and violent and extremely frightening.”"

Edit: it should also be noted that harold fish died three years after being released from prison at the age of 65 from cancer. Given the state of medical care in prisons especially Arizona prisons its rather likely it could have been diagnosed and treated earlier if he wasn't wrongly incarcerated. I'd say the corrupt and incompetent judge, prosecutor, and police killed him.

 

[Blaze]

I've been saying for years, all those political "foul ups" where they make utterly ridiculous statements about magazines, rate of fire, etc (you know, the ones we laugh at) are done on purpose. We laugh and joke at them, most average citizens think "this dip**** doesn't have a clue what he's talking about!", but a small amount of citizens believe it. They're left believing that an AR can be bought by children, have a 400 rd magazine which allows them to fire 200rds a second because it's full auto... It's only a small percentage that believe their outlandish statements but any percentage is a win for them.
If those are the people that end up in your jury pool, it could easily work against you.

 

[toobaroque]

This is why I have them all. The hungry downtrodden Perps can chase me from room to room and try to guess what they'll be up against.

 

[Grdbreaker]

Just the two of us at home and cant even see a neighbor. You get ak47 loaded with steel core at my house.

 

[ExplicitBoricua]

None of which the judge allowed the jury to hear about

I've never understood how the heck a judge can restrict these types of things. I'd bet anything that Mr. Fish's ODT, or any other 2A social media posts/comments would have been plastered all over the freaking courtroom.