Trigger upgrades in a SD carry gun

[spencer60]

It’s policy. Most agencies have that policy, not because of liability, but because they don’t know who might be the person doing the “upgrades”. An upgraded trigger done properly by someone that knows what they’re doing, is an improvement. One done by someone that doesn’t know what they’re doing can make the weapon less reliable.

Basically, same reason police cars have to be worked on at the agency garage.

My SIG P229 duty gun does have a Short Reset Trigger, which a modification developed by SIG. Not all our guns have it, but some of us have requested it and they’re installed by agency armorers......of which I am one.

But at the end of the day it's still a matter of liability. The department knows that if they let everyone do whatever they wanted to their duty guns, a single mistake could cost them a fortune.

And the reason LEOs have their own armorers is so that they can bring records into court showing that the duty guns were only modified in accordance with department policy. As LEO you can always have someone with all kinds of credentials come in and prove in court that the gun was in it's unmodified condition and was well maintained and functioning properly.

Non-LEO don't have that luxury if we go to court. It's up to us to refute any charges that the prosecutor may make to try and break down a self defense claim. That's why I think it's important to have the manufacturer on your side.

 

[Fatal_Bert]

Still waiting on that case where a gun modification is what ultimately led to a conviction.

 

[Bear44]

It has been said here more than once that a trigger upgrade is fine on a hunting or competition gun, but not on one intended for self-defense. That is one of the most backwards statements I have ever heard!

Y’all are saying a trigger upgraded isn’t needed, but it’s okay for hunting and competition. If it’s okay in those scenarios, why are guys doing it? Because it makes for a more accurate shot and gives the shooter an edge. Full stop. That’s the only reason we upgrade triggers. So, you’re saying it’s okay to give yourself an edge over your adversary when your life IS NOT on the line, but it’s not okay to give yourself an edge when YOUR LIFE is at stake!?

You miss a shot hunting, you go home without meat and/or a trophy. That’s all.....come back tomorrow and try it again. You miss some important shots in competition, you don’t win a trophy or a trip to the prize table. You miss a shot while protecting your life, or those of your loved ones, during a deadly force situation and what could happen? You die. Your loved ones die. Your errant shot strikes an innocent bystander. You’re worried about liability over a trigger upgrade, how bad do you think the liability you have incurred will be if you hit an innocent bystander?

Folks are placing important tools in the wrong scenario.

 

[spencer60]

Still waiting on that case where a gun modification is what ultimately led to a conviction. View attachment 1847636

There probably isn't one.

There are plenty of cases where people are convicted and plenty of cases with the prosecutor using modification or features or ammo as a talking point.

Even if someone was convicted solely on their self defense claim coming apart because they did something to their gun, we'd probably never know. It's not like they quiz the jurors about how they made their decision unless it's a really big trial.

The Harold Fish case is probably the closest though. That was based on the ammo, pure and simple.

 

[SirBannedAlot]

And many, many Instructors feel that the trigger is the interface between the shooter and the firearm. If that link isn’t as good as it could be, accuracy will suffer. You already stated that trigger upgrades are fine for hunting and competition. Why would a hunter or competitor need and upgraded trigger if the factory is good enough?

And the fight ain’t always going to be at close range......and folks still miss at close range. In my notes and information that I’ve collected over the years was one on a gunfight inside an elevator. Both subjects armed with a J-frame, 5-shot, .38Spl revolver. A total of 10 rounds fired and no one was hit.

An upgraded trigger may not hurt or help you at close distance, but will help you at longer distance. A stock trigger is fine at close distance, but could be a detriment at distance. That means the upgraded trigger works better all around.

Anyone thinks I can’t shoot and that I need gunsmith magic to hit the target is welcome to show up at any of my classes. We’ll shoot a few rounds together, and I’ll use my duty gun: a stock SIG P229 .357SIG DA/SA, with full-power duty loads. When it’s all over with, we’ll leave and hang out, and the loser can buy the beer.

You a motorcycle racer? Any “upgrades” on that bike?

Done plenty of upgrades to the 22 bikes I have had. None of them could be used against me in court...

 

[Bear44]

And many, many Instructors feel that the trigger is the interface between the shooter and the firearm. If that link isn’t as good as it could be, accuracy will suffer. You already stated that trigger upgrades are fine for hunting and competition. Why would a hunter or competitor need and upgraded trigger if the factory is good enough?

And the fight ain’t always going to be at close range......and folks still miss at close range. In my notes and information that I’ve collected over the years was one on a gunfight inside an elevator. Both subjects armed with a J-frame, 5-shot, .38Spl revolver. A total of 10 rounds fired and no one was hit.

An upgraded trigger may not hurt or help you at close distance, but will help you at longer distance. A stock trigger is fine at close distance, but could be a detriment at distance. That means the upgraded trigger works better all around.

Anyone thinks I can’t shoot and that I need gunsmith magic to hit the target is welcome to show up at any of my classes. We’ll shoot a few rounds together, and I’ll use my duty gun: a stock SIG P229 .357SIG DA/SA, with full-power duty loads. When it’s all over with, we’ll leave and hang out, and the loser can buy the beer.

Can I come watch that?!!

 

[SirBannedAlot]

And many, many Instructors feel that the trigger is the interface between the shooter and the firearm. If that link isn’t as good as it could be, accuracy will suffer. You already stated that trigger upgrades are fine for hunting and competition. Why would a hunter or competitor need and upgraded trigger if the factory is good enough?

And the fight ain’t always going to be at close range......and folks still miss at close range. In my notes and information that I’ve collected over the years was one on a gunfight inside an elevator. Both subjects armed with a J-frame, 5-shot, .38Spl revolver. A total of 10 rounds fired and no one was hit.

An upgraded trigger may not hurt or help you at close distance, but will help you at longer distance. A stock trigger is fine at close distance, but could be a detriment at distance. That means the upgraded trigger works better all around.

Anyone thinks I can’t shoot and that I need gunsmith magic to hit the target is welcome to show up at any of my classes. We’ll shoot a few rounds together, and I’ll use my duty gun: a stock SIG P229 .357SIG DA/SA, with full-power duty loads. When it’s all over with, we’ll leave and hang out, and the loser can buy the beer.

Will you be taken to court in either a criminal or civil case, and have some jerk lawyer trying to make you out to be some sort of whacko for modding your gun to hit a paper target?

Stop thinking like a cop with your union and department lawyers fighting on your behalf, and think like the average citizen who has to sell their home to pay their legal fees.

You have your opinion, others have theirs.

 

[Fatal_Bert]

There probably isn't one.

There are plenty of cases where people are convicted and plenty of cases with the prosecutor using modification or features or ammo as a talking point.

Even if someone was convicted solely on their self defense claim coming apart because they did something to their gun, we'd probably never know. It's not like they quiz the jurors about how they made their decision unless it's a really big trial.

The Harold Fish case is probably the closest though. That was based on the ammo, pure and simple.

His biggest mistake was talking to the police.

 

[Bear44]

It’s policy. Most agencies have that policy, not because of liability, but because they don’t know who might be the person doing the “upgrades”. An upgraded trigger done properly by someone that knows what they’re doing, is an improvement. One done by someone that doesn’t know what they’re doing can make the weapon less reliable.

Basically, same reason police cars have to be worked on at the agency garage.

My SIG P229 duty gun does have a Short Reset Trigger, which a modification developed by SIG. Not all our guns have it, but some of us have requested it and they’re installed by agency armorers......of which I am one.

Isn't it also true that many officers simply aren't that proficient with their weapons and a LE officer is much more likely to have to hold someone at gunpoint than an average citizen?

Not trying to dump on the officers that don't practice that much, but a heavy trigger reduces the likelihood of an ND at a very unfortunate moment.

 

[SirBannedAlot]

No, because you just know that all those people are going to show up at the trial to explain something. I put a short stroke trigger from Wilson on a Beretta 92, he sells the part DYI with instructions. He also sell the same gun with the same trigger. I guess him plugging in the same part is mo' better than me plugging in the same part.

I put a Cougar mainspring in a Beretta Px4. It's plug and play. Wilson will do the same thing, Doing this one modification makes the gun considerably more shootable. Guess it's back in the sock drawer for it.

I don't even want to talk about the sweet Model 19 that Jim Stroh of Alpha Precision modified or tuned up in every way possible. Jim can't come to trial, because he's passed. The DA trigger pull is about half that of a factory one, and as noted above, makes the shooter considerably more accurate. For the life of me I can't see any one going to trial and saying, "yes, I wish I were shooing a less accurate gun."

BTW if all this scares you into shooting only factory stock guns (whatever they are), make sure you drive the speed limit or lower at all times. If you are ever sued because of an automobile accident, the first thing you will be asked is how fast you were going, and you will hear about it for the rest of trial, regardless of how relevant that fact is to the case.

It’s less about fear, and more a case of it just doesn’t matter to me. I try not to buy guns with crappy triggers.