You will never see in my collection these firearms

[Swede]

That's quite a love story

 

[colrhino]

this thread makes an ordinary day, interesting and fascinating at the same time........

 

[EugenFJR]

Accuracy is not the primary indicator of quality in an AR15. The design is pretty inherently accurate, as is the round. I can shoot Nickle size groups at 25 yds (75 ft) with my $89 Marlin Model 60 .22lr. What does matter regarding quality in an AR is whether or not it runs. Otherwise, a single shot or bolt action is way cheaper. What you're paying for is higher quality components and higher QC measures to ensure that the machine runs, and that it runs reliably under adverse conditions. Staking your castle nut doesn't matter...until it comes loose, dumps the spring and detent from the rear takedown pin, and now your gun won't stay together...yep, seen it happen on the range. Staking your bolt carrier key screws doesn't matter...until then work loose, create a leak path for gas, potentially shear off, and now you have a bolt-action again.

None of it matters, save all the money you want...until something goes wrong and now your machine doesn't work.

Or, be smart, pay a little more for good QC/materials and have the odds in your favor that the machine is going to work.

I understand you build guns... I get that, I really do. But would you go out and buy a $500 dollar Marlin model 60? When your $89 dollar rifle works just as well? I have tortured the hell out of my Double Star rifle, I've melted the gas tube after appx 800 rounds in 9 min. ( it still worked useing the charging handle.) I've fired it at -30 degrees after being left on the range for 12 hours in the cold. My point is that a "middle of the road" AR maker such as RRA, DS, S&W, PSA, etc, etc... Will handle anything most people throw at them. As a matter of fact I have seen the mil spec colt rifles fail more than anything else, and be A LOT less accurate. I know for fact that a RRA won the Presidents 100 match in 2008, it was a out of the box NM A4 rifle.

Now all that being said... If a rifle isnt built right from the factory, you will have to chase down problems here and there... I have seen, and shot the BCM M4, nice rifle, nice fit and finish, but, in my mind, I cant see paying 100's of dollars more for the rifle, when mine will do the same thing.

 

[bbarie]

At least you didn't diss my SCAR...

I hate the SCAR... well I mean I hate not having one, does that count?

 

[Mentos]

Maybe it boils down to resale value if panic strikes again ? And name recognition?

 

[Hunng]

can't believe some of the responses in this thread

 

[ASH556]

I understand you build guns... I get that, I really do. But would you go out and buy a $500 dollar Marlin model 60? When your $89 dollar rifle works just as well? I have tortured the hell out of my Double Star rifle, I've melted the gas tube after appx 800 rounds in 9 min. ( it still worked useing the charging handle.) I've fired it at -30 degrees after being left on the range for 12 hours in the cold. My point is that a "middle of the road" AR maker such as RRA, DS, S&W, PSA, etc, etc... Will handle anything most people throw at them. As a matter of fact I have seen the mil spec colt rifles fail more than anything else, and be A LOT less accurate. I know for fact that a RRA won the Presidents 100 match in 2008, it was a out of the box NM A4 rifle.

Now all that being said... If a rifle isnt built right from the factory, you will have to chase down problems here and there... I have seen, and shot the BCM M4, nice rifle, nice fit and finish, but, in my mind, I cant see paying 100's of dollars more for the rifle, when mine will do the same thing.

I will say this, Doublestar seems to fly under the radar but the ones I've checked out were built pretty well. Same thing with Charles Daly. PSA is about the same (their volume and popularity has exposed more QC assembly issues, but their parts are usually pretty good). Bottom line, man, is your rifle runs! Awesome! Run it!

Guys like Mtdawg and myself aren't trying to run down guys with working rifles that cost less. We're simply pointing out that if a person is looking to purchase an AR that runs well, the odds are more in your favor with certain companies than with others. Other guys like the OP and roadkill are insistent that "an AR is an AR" and that simply isn't true.

I've said this before (so has mtdawg) I'd rather see someone spend $600 on a Smith & Wesson Sport than an $800 Bushmaster or RRA. The Smith is built better, hands down, and costs $200 less. Now, is that $600 Sport the equal of a $1,000 Colt or BCM? No. But it is better than the Bushy or the RRA. It's not about the brand, it's about the build quality. It just so happens that certain brands build quality rifles on a far more consistent basis than others. You're paying for the odds to be more in your favor.

 

[01coltcolt]

I can show you junk yards full of bad cars. Where are all the piles of bad AR barrels that failed because of QC or lack of designer rollmarks?

They are all at a company named Vulcan Armament! Yes they exist...............

 

[NWSharpshooter]

I understand you build guns... I get that, I really do. But would you go out and buy a $500 dollar Marlin model 60? When your $89 dollar rifle works just as well? I have tortured the hell out of my Double Star rifle, I've melted the gas tube after appx 800 rounds in 9 min. ( it still worked useing the charging handle.) I've fired it at -30 degrees after being left on the range for 12 hours in the cold. My point is that a "middle of the road" AR maker such as RRA, DS, S&W, PSA, etc, etc... Will handle anything most people throw at them. As a matter of fact I have seen the mil spec colt rifles fail more than anything else, and be A LOT less accurate. I know for fact that a RRA won the Presidents 100 match in 2008, it was a out of the box NM A4 rifle.

Now all that being said... If a rifle isnt built right from the factory, you will have to chase down problems here and there... I have seen, and shot the BCM M4, nice rifle, nice fit and finish, but, in my mind, I cant see paying 100's of dollars more for the rifle, when mine will do the same thing.

Rock River is one of the worst about cutting corners. They came up with a whole new barrel profile. They call it HBAR, but it is more like uncut barrel. RRA's I come in contact with regularly are almost always heavy as hell because the barrel isn't turned down at all under the handguards. Not only does this make the gun heavy as hell, but it makes adding aftermarket rails/handguards impossible. Some claim it is to increase accuracy of the gun, but the fact of the matter is they are cutting corners to keep costs down. There is a thread about this very thing started by Dougiefresh here on the ODT. His RRA pistol is heavy as hell because the barrel is not turned down behind the gas port.

When you figure RRAs sell for about the same price as a Colt, I have a hard time even imagining buying one. Back in 2003 I bought one, but that was back when you could get a brand new one for 650 bucks. Add to that the undercut ultra tight chambers that make shooting anything besides premium brass ammo an exercise in frustration, commercial buffer tubes, unstaked castle nuts, improperly stacked gas keys, and neutered bolt carriers, honestly I don't understand how they stay in business. I certainly wouldn't buy one.


As far as DPMS, Bushmaster, & Remington go, they are all the same junk Remington ARs with different roll marks. They are made to sell cheap at the local gun shop and Walmart.

Doublestar and even Delton are better than the above mentioned, and considerably cheaper too.


I try to stick with PSA, Colt, and BCM. I have a S&W as well as an old Bushmaster too.

 

[Laxguy59]

Rock River is one of the worst about cutting corners. They came up with a whole new barrel profile. They call it HBAR, but it is more like uncut barrel. RRA's I come in contact with regularly are almost always heavy as hell because the barrel isn't turned down at all under the handguards. Not only does this make the gun heavy as hell, but it makes adding aftermarket rails/handguards impossible. Some claim it is to increase accuracy of the gun, but the fact of the matter is they are cutting corners to keep costs down. There is a thread about this very thing started by Dougiefresh here on the ODT. His RRA pistol is heavy as hell because the barrel is not turned down behind the gas port.

When you figure RRAs sell for about the same price as a Colt, I have a hard time even imagining buying one. Back in 2003 I bought one, but that was back when you could get a brand new one for 650 bucks. Add to that the undercut ultra tight chambers that make shooting anything besides premium brass ammo an exercise in frustration, commercial buffer tubes, unstaked castle nuts, improperly stacked gas keys, and neutered bolt carriers, honestly I don't understand how they stay in business. I certainly wouldn't buy one.


As far as DPMS, Bushmaster, & Remington go, they are all the same junk Remington ARs with different roll marks. They are made to sell cheap at the local gun shop and Walmart.

Doublestar and even Delton are better than the above mentioned, and considerably cheaper too.


I try to stick with PSA, Colt, and BCM. I have a S&W as well as an old Bushmaster too.

I had a RRA and it was heavy as hell but always reliable and accurate even with steel case. But yea it was my first and I didn't understand why mine was so heavy. the store gave me a choice between m4 and Hbar and convinced me that HBar was better so I paid more for it when in all reality I bet he was laughing all the way tongue bank about it.

I remember when $675 was a steal for a new AR.