Had my first bad experience here

[Mark IV]

That's not the legal standard for a non-FFL.

The legal standard is that you cannot sell a gun to someone who you KNOW cannot own one.

You are not required to do any "due diligence" whatever that is.

You can suspect whatever you want, but if you don't "know" it, you have no responsibility.

The primary liability is on the person buying the gun who knows whether or not they can own one.

This may (or may not) be the letter of the law, but I wouldn't sell with complete confidence that I couldn't be prosecuted, based on this. If someone sells a firearm to someone they 'suspected' was a felon or non state resident (meaning they had some legitimate indicators, not just a vague suspicion based on him wearing a hoodie and gold teef), and this knowledge by the seller could later be proven, I wouldn't be at all confident the authorities wouldn't and couldn't prosecute.
As for due diligence ( "whatever that is"), yeah, it's a thing, look it up. If you don't even know what due diligence is, then why are you commenting on legal matters ??
due dil·i·gence
noun
LAW

1. reasonable steps taken by a person in order to satisfy a legal requirement, especially in buying or selling something.
   • a comprehensive appraisal of a business undertaken by a prospective buyer, especially to establish its assets and liabilities and evaluate its commercial potential.

And i never said we were required to do "due diligence", just that being able to demonstrate we took steps to ensure legality, could only be a positive thing. Right? Why do you think so many people here (me included) insist on seeing proof of age and state residence, and even a CCP, when we could (according to you) just hand over the weapon? Why even bother, as long as we don't actually "KNOW" the person is ineligible to own it ???

 

[dcline9163]

Hypothetically this is America and I love freedom and I don’t go around making decisions based on worst case OMG what can someone come up with on the internet!
I’ve bought and sold multiple guns without either party even hinting about a carry license. If one of those guys uses one of my previous guns in a crime; I’ll sleep the same that night knowing he could have gotten a gun just as easy elsewhere.

You're entitled to that.

 

[Trailrider]

This can turn into both quickly. I know.

I just can't see how in your scenario you could be held responsible. I know this is splitting hairs, but that's like saying if I sold a car to a guy and he went and got drunk that night and ran somebody over, the victims family could come back and sue me for selling him the car. Not sure anything like that would ever hold up.

As Georgia law stands, if I sell a firearm privately and do not believe him to be a felon, and he goes out and commits some crimes with that firearm, I am not liable. If you got sued and lost that case, you had a terrible lawyer.

 

[dcline9163]

I just can't see how in your scenario you could be held responsible. I know this is splitting hairs, but that's like saying if I sold a car to a guy and he went and got drunk that night and ran somebody over, the victims family could come back and sue me for selling him the car. Not sure anything like that would ever hold up.

As Georgia law stands, if I sell a firearm privately and do not believe him to be a felon, and he goes out and commits some crimes with that firearm, I am not liable. If you got sued and lost that case, you had a terrible lawyer.

Trust me if you live long enough you'll see a lot of things you won't believe. i know it's splitting hairs you're right, but a lawyer is a man used to get you out of trouble or a man to seek to get you something for negligence. It don't matter to him who the party is. The research they do is astronomical. Breaks down to who has a lot of money and to whom it stands to get a lot of money. In the end the lawyers win.

 

[nwbn90]

Again. I don’t require a BOS. There are a lot of people who don’t want a paper trail and I respect that. Further more I often will ask a buyer to cover up the address when showing me a permit. I have no desire to know your name or place of residence as it’s none of my business, I just want to know I’m selling to someone legally able to buy a firearm. I’ve done deals without a permit before and don’t have a huge issue w it. It just helps my own conscience.

 

[gh1950]

So if a man sells a felon a gun without knowing, and by the felon only presenting a driver's license. Then this felon goes out and shoots and kills one of your children. Your telling me that if you hire a lawyer and he finds all this out. The felon has nothing but the guy that sold him the gun is beyond rich, you're telling me you or your lawyer would not go after him for selling the felon the gun. That is just what you're saying. Albeit. this is hypothetical. And your cool with knowing what you said about this.

You see things change when you put perspectives in order, so in reality I would have to agree with the OP in this case. Just my 2 cents.

The estate of Diane McIver is suing her best friend because best friend was driving Tex McIver's SUV when ol' Tex put one in Diane's back, killing her.

So the lesson we can learn from this is don't drive a car that has a gun in it, because some one may take that gun out and shoot someone with it. Ol' Tex wasn't even a felon. In fact he was an upstanding lawyer.

Or maybe the lesson is, don't help out a friend who has had a little too much to drink by driving them home because you can get sued when her husband shoots her.

You are several magnitudes more likely to get sued for letting your teenagers or wife drive your car than you are for selling a gun to someone who you don't know is a felon.

As I and several others have tried to point out, short of filling out a 4473 and having an FFL run a background check, there is no way for a citizen to know absolutely if another citizen is a felon. Even a GWL does not guarantee that at the time of sale, the purchaser is not a felon, or a wife beater, or a habitual drug user. Write that down somewhere, because some lawyer is going to allege that for only $10-20 you could have had an FFL complete the transaction, and you were too cheap to protect the deceased's life,

Frankly, if I were going to live my life being afraid of the boogie man, I would be more concerned about the person with the TPO who buys a gun and then goes and shoots the wife who sought the TPO.

I commend this article to you,
https://thebrunswicknews.com/breaki...cle_0d995c95-3eae-5c5d-9e15-14d5da38720a.html

Every seller on ODT (including dcline9163 and @ nwbn90) and would have sold Cory Sasser a gun right before he had a standoff with SWAT, and then had the good taste to take himself out.

FWIW, he bought a gun from a real honest to God, FFL ON THE DAY OF THE MURDER OF HIS WIFE. https://www.ajc.com/news/crime--law...r-weapon-day-killings/CEGxuHMdWNwd3GdAXvTp6H/

So if it gives you a warm fuzzy playing junior G-man, send off for the secret decoder ring. There is no realistic probability you will get sued for a LEGAL SALE of a gun to a felon. You are going to end up leading a very circumspect life if you refrain from all activity that some time, some where, may get you sued.

It's America. If you are intent on limiting your market have at it.


P.S. Cory Sasser should be the poster child for every seller that insists on seeing a GWL. Actually Katie Sasser should be. Too bad we can't get the forum to make an avatar of her picture to insert in every ad that requires a GWL.

 

[Kahrnut]

"upstanding lawyer"...

 

[gh1950]

I just want to know I’m selling to someone legally able to buy a firearm.

So when Police Lt. Cory Sasser shows up in his uniform, with the badge, and all his patches, and shows you his police ID and GWL, you're going to sell him a gun, aren't you?

You can never "know" that you are selling to someone who is legally able to buy a gun. It's impossible, take that to the bank please.

The only thing you can "know" is that the person is for some reason not eligible to own a gun, and there is no systematic way for you to know that.

Even in ATF stings, the SOP is for an undercover agent to TELL the seller that he is a felon, or his friend just got out of prison, or some sort of direct information, and the agent makes sure to repeat it several times, so the seller can't say he didn't understand what was going on.

 

[nwbn90]

The estate of Diane McIver is suing her best friend because best friend was driving Tex McIver's SUV when ol' Tex put one in Diane's back, killing her.

So the lesson we can learn from this is don't drive a car that has a gun in it, because some one may take that gun out and shoot someone with it. Ol' Tex wasn't even a felon. In fact he was an upstanding lawyer.

Or maybe the lesson is, don't help out a friend who has had a little too much to drink by driving them home because you can get sued when her husband shoots her.

You are several magnitudes more likely to get sued for letting your teenagers or wife drive your car than you are for selling a gun to someone who you don't know is a felon.

As I and several others have tried to point out, short of filling out a 4473 and having an FFL run a background check, there is no way for a citizen to know absolutely if another citizen is a felon. Even a GWL does not guarantee that at the time of sale, the purchaser is not a felon, or a wife beater, or a habitual drug user. Write that down somewhere, because some lawyer is going to allege that for only $10-20 you could have had an FFL complete the transaction, and you were too cheap to protect the deceased's life,

Frankly, if I were going to live my life being afraid of the boogie man, I would be more concerned about the person with the TPO who buys a gun and then goes and shoots the wife who sought the TPO.

I commend this article to you,
https://thebrunswicknews.com/breaki...cle_0d995c95-3eae-5c5d-9e15-14d5da38720a.html

Every seller on ODT (including dcline9163 and @ nwbn90) and would have sold Cory Sasser a gun right before he had a standoff with SWAT, and then had the good taste to take himself out.

FWIW, he bought a gun from a real honest to God, FFL ON THE DAY OF THE MURDER OF HIS WIFE. https://www.ajc.com/news/crime--law...r-weapon-day-killings/CEGxuHMdWNwd3GdAXvTp6H/

So if it gives you a warm fuzzy playing junior G-man, send off for the secret decoder ring. There is no realistic probability you will get sued for a LEGAL SALE of a gun to a felon. You are going to end up leading a very circumspect life if you refrain from all activity that some time, some where, may get you sued.

It's America. If you are intent on limiting your market have at it.


P.S. Cory Sasser should be the poster child for every seller that insists on seeing a GWL. Actually Katie Sasser should be. Too bad we can't get the forum to make an avatar of her picture to insert in every ad that requires a GWL.

These are all good points

 

[dcline9163]

The estate of Diane McIver is suing her best friend because best friend was driving Tex McIver's SUV when ol' Tex put one in Diane's back, killing her.

So the lesson we can learn from this is don't drive a car that has a gun in it, because some one may take that gun out and shoot someone with it. Ol' Tex wasn't even a felon. In fact he was an upstanding lawyer.

Or maybe the lesson is, don't help out a friend who has had a little too much to drink by driving them home because you can get sued when her husband shoots her.

You are several magnitudes more likely to get sued for letting your teenagers or wife drive your car than you are for selling a gun to someone who you don't know is a felon.

As I and several others have tried to point out, short of filling out a 4473 and having an FFL run a background check, there is no way for a citizen to know absolutely if another citizen is a felon. Even a GWL does not guarantee that at the time of sale, the purchaser is not a felon, or a wife beater, or a habitual drug user. Write that down somewhere, because some lawyer is going to allege that for only $10-20 you could have had an FFL complete the transaction, and you were too cheap to protect the deceased's life,

Frankly, if I were going to live my life being afraid of the boogie man, I would be more concerned about the person with the TPO who buys a gun and then goes and shoots the wife who sought the TPO.

I commend this article to you,
https://thebrunswicknews.com/breaki...cle_0d995c95-3eae-5c5d-9e15-14d5da38720a.html

Every seller on ODT (including dcline9163 and @ nwbn90) and would have sold Cory Sasser a gun right before he had a standoff with SWAT, and then had the good taste to take himself out.

FWIW, he bought a gun from a real honest to God, FFL ON THE DAY OF THE MURDER OF HIS WIFE. https://www.ajc.com/news/crime--law...r-weapon-day-killings/CEGxuHMdWNwd3GdAXvTp6H/

So if it gives you a warm fuzzy playing junior G-man, send off for the secret decoder ring. There is no realistic probability you will get sued for a LEGAL SALE of a gun to a felon. You are going to end up leading a very circumspect life if you refrain from all activity that some time, some where, may get you sued.

It's America. If you are intent on limiting your market have at it.


P.S. Cory Sasser should be the poster child for every seller that insists on seeing a GWL. Actually Katie Sasser should be. Too bad we can't get the forum to make an avatar of her picture to insert in every ad that requires a GWL.

Your opinions are exactly what they are. Don’t mean anything to me.