-
ODT Gun Show & Swap Meet - May 4, 2024! - Click here for info
Help me figure out this Background Check Bill
- Thread starter Okuma
- Start date
OK, the actual 'latest' bill is here... (http://www.toomey.senate.gov/?p=press_release&id=968).
A couple of things jumped out at me right off the bat:
"(9) Notwithstanding any other provision of this chapter, upon receiving a request for an instant background check that originates from a gun show or event, the system shall complete the instant background check before completing any pending instant background check that did not originate from a gun show or event."
So calls from a gun show go to the front of the line? I can sort of see that, but it means everyone else will be slowed down.
(D) Regulations promulgated under this paragraph may not include any provision placing a cap on the fee licensees may charge to facilitate transfers in accordance with paragraph (2)(A).
No change from the present there.
SEC. 115. ADDITIONAL PROTECTIONS FOR OUR VETERANS.
< too much for this post>
Lots of stuff here for Vets who have had their rights pulled arbitrarily by the VA. Administrative as well as judicial review standards to be put in place.
Limitation on Arrest Authority.-A person who is transporting a firearm or ammunition may not be-
(1) arrested for violation of any law or any rule or regulation of a State, or any political subdivision thereof, relating to the possession, transportation, or carrying of firearms or ammunition, unless there is probable cause that the transportation is not in accordance with subsection (b); or
"(2) detained for violation of any law or any rule or regulation of a State, or any political subdivision thereof, relating to the possession, transportation, or carrying of firearms or ammunition, unless there is reasonable suspicion that the transportation is not in accordance with subsection (b).".
This is actually an improvement, and could help with some of the people who NY and NJ have arrested while traveling through those states. It also has a clause that means you are still 'transporting' even if you stay in a hotel overnight or have to go to the hospital.
Nothing in this subtitle, or an amendment made by this subtitle, shall be construed-
(1) to extend background check requirements to transfers other than those made at gun shows or on the curtilage thereof, or pursuant to an advertisement, posting, display, or other listing on the Internet or in a publication by the transferor of the intent of the transferor to transfer, or the transferee of the intent of the transferee to acquire, the firearm; or
(2) to extend background check requirements to temporary transfers for purposes including lawful hunting or sporting or to temporary possession of a firearm for purposes of examination or evaluation by a prospective transferee.
This actually get's rid of all the crazy transfer crimes I mentioned in the earlier post. Interestingly, the term 'curtilage comes up again, but this time it may be in our favor. From my other post, it seems like curtilage has to be a place where you expect privacy. A gun-show parking lot would hardly be that. This seems to restrict it to the building proper.
"(D) Nothing in this paragraph shall be construed to affect the immunity of a provider of an interactive computer service under section 230 of the Communications Act of 1934 (47 U.S.C. 230).
So Steve can't be sued.
"(i) complies with all requirements of this chapter as if the licensee were transferring the firearm from the licensee's business inventory to the unlicensed transferee, except that when processing a transfer under this chapter the licensee may accept in lieu of conducting a background check a valid permit issued within the previous 5 years by a State, or a political subdivision of a State, that allows the transferee to possess, acquire, or carry a firearm...
So a carry license still lets you waive a background check.
"(C) the transfer is made between spouses, between parents or spouses of parents and their children or spouses of their children, between siblings or spouses of siblings, or between grandparents or spouses of grandparents and their grandchildren or spouses of their grandchildren, or between aunts or uncles or their spouses and their nieces or nephews or their spouses, or between first cousins, if the transferor does not know or have reasonable cause to believe that the transferee is prohibited from receiving or possessing a firearm under Federal, State, or local law;
Much expanded over the original husband-wife-siblings language.
(c) Prohibition of National Gun Registry.-Section 923 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following:
"(m) The Attorney General may not consolidate or centralize the records of the-
"(1) acquisition or disposition of firearms, or any portion thereof, maintained by-
"(A) a person with a valid, current license under this chapter;
"(B) an unlicensed transferor under section 922(t); or
"(2) possession or ownership of a firearm, maintained by any medical or health insurance entity.".
The anti-registry clause. Not written in stone but admittedly more than the law has today.
Overall... a far cry from Schumer's bill. This one is well written and minimally intrusive, so long as you believe that background checks for private transfers are actually a thing worth doing...
The thing is, this one has a real chance of getting by in the House as well as the Senate. The people voting against it will be the rabid gun-control nuts that want these bills to be punitive.
This one takes the tack that if people really want background checks for gun shows and classifieds, that's all they will cover. And they also toss-in enough pro-gun stuff to make it politically acceptable.
A couple of things jumped out at me right off the bat:
"(9) Notwithstanding any other provision of this chapter, upon receiving a request for an instant background check that originates from a gun show or event, the system shall complete the instant background check before completing any pending instant background check that did not originate from a gun show or event."
So calls from a gun show go to the front of the line? I can sort of see that, but it means everyone else will be slowed down.
(D) Regulations promulgated under this paragraph may not include any provision placing a cap on the fee licensees may charge to facilitate transfers in accordance with paragraph (2)(A).
No change from the present there.
SEC. 115. ADDITIONAL PROTECTIONS FOR OUR VETERANS.
< too much for this post>
Lots of stuff here for Vets who have had their rights pulled arbitrarily by the VA. Administrative as well as judicial review standards to be put in place.
Limitation on Arrest Authority.-A person who is transporting a firearm or ammunition may not be-
(1) arrested for violation of any law or any rule or regulation of a State, or any political subdivision thereof, relating to the possession, transportation, or carrying of firearms or ammunition, unless there is probable cause that the transportation is not in accordance with subsection (b); or
"(2) detained for violation of any law or any rule or regulation of a State, or any political subdivision thereof, relating to the possession, transportation, or carrying of firearms or ammunition, unless there is reasonable suspicion that the transportation is not in accordance with subsection (b).".
This is actually an improvement, and could help with some of the people who NY and NJ have arrested while traveling through those states. It also has a clause that means you are still 'transporting' even if you stay in a hotel overnight or have to go to the hospital.
Nothing in this subtitle, or an amendment made by this subtitle, shall be construed-
(1) to extend background check requirements to transfers other than those made at gun shows or on the curtilage thereof, or pursuant to an advertisement, posting, display, or other listing on the Internet or in a publication by the transferor of the intent of the transferor to transfer, or the transferee of the intent of the transferee to acquire, the firearm; or
(2) to extend background check requirements to temporary transfers for purposes including lawful hunting or sporting or to temporary possession of a firearm for purposes of examination or evaluation by a prospective transferee.
This actually get's rid of all the crazy transfer crimes I mentioned in the earlier post. Interestingly, the term 'curtilage comes up again, but this time it may be in our favor. From my other post, it seems like curtilage has to be a place where you expect privacy. A gun-show parking lot would hardly be that. This seems to restrict it to the building proper.
"(D) Nothing in this paragraph shall be construed to affect the immunity of a provider of an interactive computer service under section 230 of the Communications Act of 1934 (47 U.S.C. 230).
So Steve can't be sued.
"(i) complies with all requirements of this chapter as if the licensee were transferring the firearm from the licensee's business inventory to the unlicensed transferee, except that when processing a transfer under this chapter the licensee may accept in lieu of conducting a background check a valid permit issued within the previous 5 years by a State, or a political subdivision of a State, that allows the transferee to possess, acquire, or carry a firearm...
So a carry license still lets you waive a background check.
"(C) the transfer is made between spouses, between parents or spouses of parents and their children or spouses of their children, between siblings or spouses of siblings, or between grandparents or spouses of grandparents and their grandchildren or spouses of their grandchildren, or between aunts or uncles or their spouses and their nieces or nephews or their spouses, or between first cousins, if the transferor does not know or have reasonable cause to believe that the transferee is prohibited from receiving or possessing a firearm under Federal, State, or local law;
Much expanded over the original husband-wife-siblings language.
(c) Prohibition of National Gun Registry.-Section 923 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following:
"(m) The Attorney General may not consolidate or centralize the records of the-
"(1) acquisition or disposition of firearms, or any portion thereof, maintained by-
"(A) a person with a valid, current license under this chapter;
"(B) an unlicensed transferor under section 922(t); or
"(2) possession or ownership of a firearm, maintained by any medical or health insurance entity.".
The anti-registry clause. Not written in stone but admittedly more than the law has today.
Overall... a far cry from Schumer's bill. This one is well written and minimally intrusive, so long as you believe that background checks for private transfers are actually a thing worth doing...
The thing is, this one has a real chance of getting by in the House as well as the Senate. The people voting against it will be the rabid gun-control nuts that want these bills to be punitive.
This one takes the tack that if people really want background checks for gun shows and classifieds, that's all they will cover. And they also toss-in enough pro-gun stuff to make it politically acceptable.
Last edited:
They do thos BS so NOBODY CAN UNDETSTAND anythong.. even up for interpitation for them.:thumbdown::thumbdown::thumbdown::thumbdown::thumbdown::thumbdown:
the vast majority of those voting on it will not have read it as well as the majority of people on this forum!
I honestly have not looked at the text of the bill in any detail, but it seems pretty clear that transfers like the ones we set up here on the ODT will require a background check. Good thing too, as it will stop all of the criminals on here from getting their assault weapons that they use to kill thousands of children every year!
Keep fighting the good fight and contacting your Congress critters. But go ahead and get ready to start meeting at your local FFL to trade with your fellow ODT'er.
So...did I read that correctly? If someone has a permit, the need for all this extra background check stuff is waived? Even if it's two of us ODTers getting together like we do now?
I think that is only for FFL to individual transferee. Again, I have not read the whole bill yet, so I might be missing something, but the section (i) appears to be only a transfer from a "licensee" which I believe is an FFL holder. However, the definitions section of the bill should answer that. Honestly, I think we ODT'ers are all screwed if this passes.
Only the background check itself, you still have to have it done via an FFL and though a form 4473.
Just like the Schumer bill, they are are simply folding this into the existing retail process. Unlike the Schumer bill, they don't seem to require that the firearm be transferred to the FFLs inventory before running the check.
I just found out that the Toomey-Manchin bill was co-written by some of the lawyers at Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms (CCRKBA). They are officially supporting this bill. For those that may not recognize that name, it's the lobbying arm for the Second Amendment Foundation.
On one hand it explains all the pro-gun stiff in the bill. It also explains why the actual restrictions are set up in ways that could be challenged under the First Amendment as well (why is selling a gun on a classified any worse than selling a car?).
On the other hand, I always hate seeing the NRA get involved with court cases, and now I hate seeing the SAF get involved in Congress.
No matter what technical merits the bill may have, and how much pro-gun stuff is built in, to me the NRA's 'No Compromise' stance is a far better way to go in this case. It really saddens me that a group like the SAF, who have been a lynchpin for gun rights in the last 20 years, has chosen to go this route.
Well, they will have to pass it first till we know what is in it! Think I will add this law to the list of those to ignore, or at a minimum, to "selectively enforce".
Last edited:
