ATF new “rule” for no firearm Transaction without background check

[Ken Ford]

Here's one fun fact...

The Department disagrees with the comments arguing that a firearm’s condition—or the fact that a firearm is in, or sold with, original packaging that contains manufacturer instructions and other useful items—is an arbitrary basis for a rebuttable presumption.

Persons who are engaged in the business of dealing in firearms often desire firearms that are in either a new condition, or a nearly new condition, accompanied by original packaging so they can command the highest price while quickly attracting buyers in the shortest amount of time.

Moreover, purchasers of deadly, explosive-based weapons are more likely to trust the safety and reliability of new, factory-tested firearms, rather than used firearms in a lesser condition.

Nonetheless, in response to comments regarding the presumptions that a person is engaged in the business if they repetitively resell or offer for resale new or like-new firearms, or firearms that are of the same or similar kind and type, the Department has revised those presumptions to apply only where the resales or offers for resale occurs within one year from the date of purchase (also referred to in this rule as a “turnover” limitation) to reduce the chance that personal collection firearms might fall within either of these presumptions.

So... all you flippers have to hold onto a gun for ONE YEAR now before getting rid of it, otherwise there will be a 'presumption' you are an 'unsilenced dealer'.

That's probably true for most flippers, but I think it will impact a lot of normal folks as well. Sell more than one gun a year (so you are 'repetitive') that's still in the box and the ATF will 'presume' you are an unlicensed dealer.

You are doing the same thing.
The section you quoted also says “repetitively” again referring to being in the “business” of selling guns.

 

[Ken Ford]

they gonna find somebody to **** with

Probably.

 

[Ken Ford]

But yeah I see this being thrown out.

 

[palmettomoon]

Loads of misinformation being thrown around about this "announcement."

It's simply an excuse to have Biden hold a presser and claim his "administration has FINALLY closed the gunshow loophole, thus ensuring the safety of our communities!" LOL.

 

[Ken Ford]

Loads of misinformation being thrown around about this "announcement."

It's simply an excuse to have Biden hold a presser and claim his "administration has FINALLY closed the gunshow loophole, thus ensuring the safety of our communities!" LOL.

Exactly my thoughts as well.

Just shows the “conservative” side has learned to over drama or exaggerate everything their opponents say.

 

[spencer60]

You are doing the same thing.
The section you quoted also says “repetitively” again referring to being in the “business” of selling guns.

The 'same thing' as what?

This is actual text from from the rule... it basically says 'repetitively' is once per year if you sell a gun in LNIB condition. That allows the ATF to 'presume' you are an unlicensed dealer.

There is a lot more about it that I didn't cut and paste. Check page 185 -187 of the rule of you want all the verbiage.

They go out of their way to say to avoid saying it's 'evidence' in other parts of the rule, and specifically mention that it doesn't shift the burden of proof from the prosecution, but they seem to think it's enough for them to at least investigate you.

And that's the whole point here. This isn't like the brace rule, or the frame and receiver rule, where they are literally making $i#& up.

They are taking a law passed by Congress and signed by POTUS, and making a rule that gives them the maximum amount of leeway to do as they choose.

It's not a big difference from the old laws they cite in GCA 68 and FOPA, but it breaks new ground and allows them to pursue cases that wouldn't have been possible before.

 

[rbstern]

I keep looking at the revised rule text, stated purpose, new definitions, executive summary, and responses to public comments.

Nowhere does it mention "shall not be infringed."

Hmm.

 

[The Old Jaybird]

what's the answer???? Long term, undocumented firearms rentals, you know like for 20-30 years or so.

 

[spencer60]

The answer for now is don't be 'in the business' without an FFL or they will probably come knocking to make an example.

You can bet folks that rent tables at gun shows repeatedly will be in the cross-hairs. I'm sure flippers on here will be a target as well, although that only seems to be common during a panic.

One thing I could see being different though is if you get tied to a 'crime gun'. That could make you enough of a target for them to use all these new 'presumptions' to investigate you.

That's bad enough, but the recent Arkansas raid shows how easily ATF lets a simple search warrant service go sideways.

I do think most of it is both vague and overbroad, but it will take years to get any fix from the courts, so unless we have a House/Senate and POTUS next election willing to address this in law these new rules are probably here to stay.

 

[Spas-12 Owner]

That's bad enough, but the recent Arkansas raid shows how easily ATF lets a simple search warrant service go sideways.

Waco, Texas,
Feb 28, 1993 – Apr 19, 1993
86 Deaths in total

Arkansas wasn't anything new, sadly.