NOT so accurate sniper rifles...........

[Jeddak]

I disagree, there is no such thing as a perfect weapon, Alvin York used his weapon to the Max, so have many other shooters, any weapon is only as good as the man pulling the trigger, You can have the most "accurate" weapon ever made, but the shooter factors in, Range, wind, drift, drop and anticipates the Targets movement, "Paper just stands there" people move. Been there, done that..

Vasiley Zaitsev killed his first German with a PPSh, IIRC. Their unit was shipped across the river to Stalingrad, did not even have rifles, they were pinned down by German fire. Zaitsev picked up a PPSh off a dead soldier,fired one shot of 7.62Tokarev and killed the machine gunner. Officer first chewed him out, then issued him a "more accurate" Mosin rifle.
At least that's the official version.

 

[olchevy]

This guy just killed all yall.

Just let everyone at the house watch it and we all were wrong on where he was.

 

[cmshoot]

Simo Häyhä used an unscoped Finnish M/28-30 rifle and the Suomi KP/-31 SMG to get his 505 confirmed kills.

 

[olchevy]

Simo Häyhä used an unscoped Finnish M/28-30 rifle and the Suomi KP/-31 SMG to get his 505 confirmed kills.

I have over 4,000 confirmed kills with just a combat knife... in call of duty.... -_-

 

[01coltcolt]

11 years ago I bought that rifle ignorantly assuming it was accuracy capable. I know better now. I have some distance guns now and all are bolt guns. But that PSL taught me a lot. BTW I do have to give the M1A1 its dues, at 500 yards its pretty nasty and I'm sure capable of more, with the right shooter witch I'm not there yet.

 

[01coltcolt]

BTW here is a video I enjoyed earlier today, check this guy out sniping pigs.

 

[GAgunLAWbooklet]

That is very true, if all you have known and everyone with you carries 4+ Moa rifles with iron sights and you are issued a rifle that shoots 2-3moa with a scope you have an amazingly accurate rifle in comparison lol

If the PSL shoots groups half the size of an AK, and fires a much more powerful round (even surpassing the .308), and can be used successfully to engage enemies at 400+ yards with rapid fire, and rounds that zip through a lot of concealment / light cover, what's not to like? If you can get 5" groups at 200 yards, or 10" groups at 400 yards (2.5 m.o.a. with military ball ammo), you can inflict a lot of damage on the enemy at the distances at which most small-arms gun battles take place.
This article says the PSL is a 2.5 MOA weapon.
http://www.tactical-life.com/firearms/romanian-psl-54c-7-62x54r/#romania-psl-54c-2014-full-lead
Numerous other articles and blog posts online have owners of these guns reporting that with the best factory ammo (after testing several kinds), they get 1.5" MOA. That's enough for almost any application in real life.


Why wouldn't any army that normally issues AK-47 pattern rifles to its troops want some of their better marksmen to carry these longer and "super sized" PSL's instead?

I don't think a rifle has to be .5" MOA capable to be a sniper weapon. It just has to be considerably more accurate than the standard rifles used by the enemy, allowing you to shoot them from a range they were not expecting, and which is far enough to make it difficult for them to spot you (or shoot you).

This video tests an NDM-86 Dragunov side-by-side with a Savage bolt action tactical .308, and they found that the 5-shot groups at 100 meters were: 1.5" for the Savage, 2.5" for the Dragunov.

https://www.full30.com/video/565912c34207e47a93d57bbc3b56f514

They say this is typical and works fine for the "designated marksman" role in combat; these Dragunov's were not used by Soviet-trained forces as sniper rifles in the way that we use snipers.

 

[Bear44]

If the PSL shoots groups half the size of an AK, and fires a much more powerful round (even surpassing the .308), and can be used successfully to engage enemies at 400+ yards with rapid fire, and rounds that zip through a lot of concealment / light cover, what's not to like? If you can get 5" groups at 200 yards, or 10" groups at 400 yards (2.5 m.o.a. with military ball ammo), you can inflict a lot of damage on the enemy at the distances at which most small-arms gun battles take place.
This article says the PSL is a 2.5 MOA weapon.
http://www.tactical-life.com/firearms/romanian-psl-54c-7-62x54r/#romania-psl-54c-2014-full-lead
Numerous other articles and blog posts online have owners of these guns reporting that with the best factory ammo (after testing several kinds), they get 1.5" MOA. That's enough for almost any application in real life.


Why wouldn't any army that normally issues AK-47 pattern rifles to its troops want some of their better marksmen to carry these longer and "super sized" PSL's instead?

I don't think a rifle has to be .5" MOA capable to be a sniper weapon. It just has to be considerably more accurate than the standard rifles used by the enemy, allowing you to shoot them from a range they were not expecting, and which is far enough to make it difficult for them to spot you (or shoot you).

This video tests an NDM-86 Dragunov side-by-side with a Savage bolt action tactical .308, and they found that the 5-shot groups at 100 meters were: 1.5" for the Savage, 2.5" for the Dragunov.

https://www.full30.com/video/565912c34207e47a93d57bbc3b56f514

They say this is typical and works fine for the "designated marksman" role in combat; these Dragunov's were not used by Soviet-trained forces as sniper rifles in the way that we use snipers.

"It just has to be considerably more accurate than the standard rifles used by the enemy"

Well, that eliminates pretty much any soviet/Russian semi as a sniper weapon when up against any force equipped with AR type rifles.

 

[Bear44]

If the PSL shoots groups half the size of an AK, and fires a much more powerful round (even surpassing the .308), and can be used successfully to engage enemies at 400+ yards with rapid fire, and rounds that zip through a lot of concealment / light cover, what's not to like? If you can get 5" groups at 200 yards, or 10" groups at 400 yards (2.5 m.o.a. with military ball ammo), you can inflict a lot of damage on the enemy at the distances at which most small-arms gun battles take place.
This article says the PSL is a 2.5 MOA weapon.
http://www.tactical-life.com/firearms/romanian-psl-54c-7-62x54r/#romania-psl-54c-2014-full-lead
Numerous other articles and blog posts online have owners of these guns reporting that with the best factory ammo (after testing several kinds), they get 1.5" MOA. That's enough for almost any application in real life.


Why wouldn't any army that normally issues AK-47 pattern rifles to its troops want some of their better marksmen to carry these longer and "super sized" PSL's instead?

I don't think a rifle has to be .5" MOA capable to be a sniper weapon. It just has to be considerably more accurate than the standard rifles used by the enemy, allowing you to shoot them from a range they were not expecting, and which is far enough to make it difficult for them to spot you (or shoot you).

This video tests an NDM-86 Dragunov side-by-side with a Savage bolt action tactical .308, and they found that the 5-shot groups at 100 meters were: 1.5" for the Savage, 2.5" for the Dragunov.

https://www.full30.com/video/565912c34207e47a93d57bbc3b56f514

They say this is typical and works fine for the "designated marksman" role in combat; these Dragunov's were not used by Soviet-trained forces as sniper rifles in the way that we use snipers.

I'll also point out that the comparison between the Savage and the Dragunov has a major flaw. They disregard matching the ammo to the rifle. This is a fundamental process for anyone looking for best accuracy from a particular rifle. They even say at the beginning that the Savage is a 0.5MOA rifle, but then it shoots 1.5MOA groups.

A real comparison would be to do the same thing that serious shooters do and find the ammo that shoots best in each rifle, then compare accuracy between the two.

 

[Jeddak]

"It just has to be considerably more accurate than the standard rifles used by the enemy"

Well, that eliminates pretty much any soviet/Russian semi as a sniper weapon when up against any force equipped with AR type rifles.

How effective is 5.56 at 400 yards, vs 7.62x54R at 400 yards, accuracy issues aside? Torso hit is a torso hit. Effective enough to puncture thru a windshield, body armor? When fired from M4? I have no experience with AR, so I do not know the answers.