Grand Jury will look at evidence of explosives used to take down WTC1, WTC2, and WTC7 on 9/11

[jeep78]

Maybe? I don't know. But according to the article and the official NIST findings the fires only reached about 1832°F

And I agree with your above post that the steel didn't have to melt for the building to collapse no argument there. The question is was there molten steel as some evidence suggest? And if so what exactly caused it?

Isolated heat pockets, due to chimney effect of air drafts across the fires? Aluminum and magnesium burning?

Jet fuel easily burns above 3000 degrees if conditions are favorable, and jet engines can easily melt if given too much fuel. They are equipped with exhaust gas temp gauges to help limit burn temps below 1500 to 1900 degrees, depending on the engine. Burn temp is also a limiting factor on diesel engine power output, give it more fuel, it burns hotter and makes more power.....until something gets too hot and fails. Diesel fuel is essentially jet fuel.

 

[Fatal_Bert]

Isolated heat pockets, due to chimney effect of air drafts across the fires? Aluminum and magnesium burning?

Jet fuel easily burns above 3000 degrees if conditions are favorable, and jet engines can easily melt if given too much fuel. They are equipped with exhaust gas temp gauges to help limit burn temps below 1500 to 1900 degrees, depending on the engine. Burn temp is also a limiting factor on diesel engine power output, give it more fuel, it burns hotter and makes more power.....until something gets too hot and fails. Diesel fuel is essentially jet fuel.

True, but it would take more than an isolated pocket to turn a part of a steel beam into molten liquid when you factor that the heat can travel through the long length of the beam and it will absord the heat.

So yeah, an isolated pocket fueled by some air draft may melt an isolated piece of steel like some office furniture or something, but not a steel beam a hundred feet long.

And again, I've never seen anyone argue that office fires and jet fuel can melt steel beams or turn them to molten steel. I thought that was pretty much settled science. The argument is was there molten steel beams?

 

[Abbsnkan]

rather, what do you believe?

I believe that a guy on dialysis, in a cave in Afghanistan managed to somehow bypass and plot the greatest bypass of national security in the history of the United States using only a laptop and satellite phone that somehow couldn’t be traced by the most advanced intelligence agencies in the world. I believe that he orchestrated all this just to get back at the United States for making his home country of Saudi Arabia one of the richest countries in the world.

I also believe that buildings fall at free fall speed straight down if the steel beams get weak. Because steel that gets weak doesn’t bend in the middle when weight is applied on the ends, it completely collapses into itself. I also believe that there is no way whatsoever that the gold missing from the vaults in the wtc tower went missing, they probably just made a 100 million dollar accounting error. I also believe that the sitting Vice Presidents company getting a blank check no bid contract to “provide support” to an invasion of a country that had nothing to do with the attack is purely a coincidence. I also believe that whilesteel beams burn so hot with hair dryers and charcoal that they make buildings collapse they in fact do not burn passports of the hyjackers.

Most importantly I do not believe any of the crazy people out there who say that the us government would stage a false flag incident killing Americans just to drive the economy back up out of a recession by putting the American war machine economy back to work. That’s just completely disrespectful to our honest and benevolent leaders. I believe that the mkultra svandal, the issues at lejeune, and the fact that the entire bush family is historically corrupt to the core, from the general smedley butler attempted coup to g.ws grandpa being a nazi sympathizer to George sr. Running the CIA is all completely fabricated.

In an age of intelligence, ignorance is a choice.

 

[Abbsnkan]

It's not what I believe it's what I don't believe. I don't believe the official story that office fires took WTC7 into a free fall collapse.

As far as the OP is concerned, I don't know if there was molten steel at ground zero, I don't know if office fires can melt steel, I don't know a lot of anything. But people way smarter than any of us, thousands of them, have serious questions, and evidence. I think it's pretty cool a grand jury might finally get to examine this evidence. That's all, sorry I inconvenienced you with my interest in this subject.

Wtc7 was the only other building to “ catch fire” it wasn’t hit by any plane. So how did it catch fire? What about the bbc broadcast 30 minuets prior to its collapse saying it had already collapsed. What was actually in wtc7? Just because you say something doesn’t make it true or untrue. For a bunch of guys who refuse to do a simple bill of sale on a firearm because “it ain’t the gubermints business what I own” you guys sure do put a lot of trust in the official story

 

[Fatal_Bert]

I believe that a guy on dialysis, in a cave in Afghanistan managed to somehow bypass and plot the greatest bypass of national security in the history of the United States using only a laptop and satellite phone that somehow couldn’t be traced by the most advanced intelligence agencies in the world. I believe that he orchestrated all this just to get back at the United States for making his home country of Saudi Arabia one of the richest countries in the world.

I also believe that buildings fall at free fall speed straight down if the steel beams get weak. Because steel that gets weak doesn’t bend in the middle when weight is applied on the ends, it completely collapses into itself. I also believe that there is no way whatsoever that the gold missing from the vaults in the wtc tower went missing, they probably just made a 100 million dollar accounting error. I also believe that the sitting Vice Presidents company getting a blank check no bid contract to “provide support” to an invasion of a country that had nothing to do with the attack is purely a coincidence. I also believe that whilesteel beams burn so hot with hair dryers and charcoal that they make buildings collapse they in fact do not burn passports of the hyjackers.

Most importantly I do not believe any of the crazy people out there who say that the us government would stage a false flag incident killing Americans just to drive the economy back up out of a recession by putting the American war machine economy back to work. That’s just completely disrespectful to our honest and benevolent leaders. I believe that the mkultra svandal, the issues at lejeune, and the fact that the entire bush family is historically corrupt to the core, from the general smedley butler attempted coup to g.ws grandpa being a nazi sympathizer to George sr. Running the CIA is all completely fabricated.

In an age of intelligence, ignorance is a choice.

I forgot about the passport.
To think people believe one of the hijackers passports survived the plane crash, fires, building collapse and was discovered legible amongst all the rubble, and these people think "truthers" are crazy.

 

[NWSharpshooter]

From the popular mechanics aricle.

"FACT: Jet fuel burns at 800° to 1500°F, not hot enough to melt steel (2750°F). However, experts agree that for the towers to collapse, their steel frames didn't need to melt, they just had to lose some of their structural strength—and that required exposure to much less heat."

Guess you didn't read it huh?

If I'm not careful my diesel truck can easily hit exhaust gas temps of 2000+ degrees with simple diesel fuel....which is essentially jet fuel. If the aluminum turbo wouldn't melt I imagine 3000 would be reachable easily enough.

 

[Fatal_Bert]

If I'm not careful my diesel truck can easily hit exhaust gas temps of 2000+ degrees with simple diesel fuel....which is essentially jet fuel. If the aluminum turbo wouldn't melt I imagine 3000 would be reachable easily enough.

Sure, given the right forced air scenario it could happen, I can see that. I haven't seen any theories of this being the case at the WTC towers though. This seems to be a new theory originating by the ODT conspiracy theorist.

 

[NWSharpshooter]

Sure, given the right forced air scenario it could happen, I can see that. I haven't seen any theories of this being the case at the WTC towers though. This seems to be a new theory originating by the ODT conspiracy theorist.

You ever see someone make a homemade forge? Kinda resembles a tall building with shafts running down the middle.


I hahr no idea what happened on 911, but that is how it was explained to me by our iron workers they day it happened. I have heard the same thing several times over the years.

 

[Fatal_Bert]

You ever see someone make a homemade forge? Kinda resembles a tall building with shafts running down the middle.


I hahr no idea what happened on 911, but that is how it was explained to me by our iron workers they day it happened. I have heard the same thing several times over the years.

It's an interesting theory, it's just not one that I'm familiar with. The official story is there was no molten or melted steel, and the other side claims there was melted steel caused by thermite or some sort of explosives. I've never herd it argued that the conditions of the burning jet fuel and building, combined with some sort of forced air may have melted the beams.

I would think if that was the case, some scientist or engineer would have put together a hypothesis or theory demonstrating it but I haven't seen any.

 

[Abbsnkan]

You ever see someone make a homemade forge? Kinda resembles a tall building with shafts running down the middle.


I hahr no idea what happened on 911, but that is how it was explained to me by our iron workers they day it happened. I have heard the same thing several times over the years.

I agree with you. I’m not a scientist nor a smart person by any means. I’m also not a veterinarian but I know bull crap when I smell it. If you can explain to me how the top 20 or so floors were so heavy even with weakened beams and burned out floor beneath that they fell straight down. Not tipped to one side and fell, they fell absolutely straight down. Somehow the weight of those floors was enough to completely smash and level every floor beneath. Straight down, all the way straight down. In addition to wtc1-2 being the only two buildings in history to ever collapse from being hit by s plane.
Never mind that there isn’t a single picture anywhere ever produced of a plane hitting the pentagon. Seems like maybe they should put up one or two cameras there. The light poles in the wingspan area of the approach still standing. The wire spoils still sitting directly in front of the round hole in the pentagon in the office of fiscal accountability, ironically the day after Donald Rumsfeld said we lost —- trillion dollars. The FACT that mossad has confirmed several of the hyjackers are still alive, including one who is a government computer programmer in Europe. Project northwoods? Nah irrelevant. The guy on dialysis somehow knew every single fighter intercept assignment guarding the east coast was on training down by cherry point. No wreckage of a plan in Pennsylvania. No black boxes recovered? Seriously you guys can’t be serious that THIS is the truth? Wtc owner updated his insurance a month before to include strikes by a plane? Coincidence. Really?